Alice Heiman 0:00

If you're plateaued, who's buying from you now? Are they buying everything they could possibly buy, or could they be better served by buying some other things or buying them differently? A lot of times, also when we look at our existing customer base, we find customers on old legacy products with old legacy subscriptions, payments, things like that. So let's get our existing customer base shored up first. Spend the time there. Go through every customer, rank them and rate them, decide who to approach first and have conversations with them.

Angela Robertson 0:33

Welcome back, everyone, to the Stormy Stories show. I am your host, Angela Robertson, CEO of Ace Tech. As you know, we are the premier community for tech CEOs and founders here in beautiful British Columbia, Canada. And I'm so delighted to introduce you to our guest today, Alice Hyman. She is the founder of Alice Hyman LLC and host of the wonderful podcast, Sales Talk for CEOs. As a globally recognized sales strategist who helps CEOs elevate sales performance, grow revenue, and increase company valuation, Alice combines her decades of experience in complex B2B selling with her advising for everyone from startups all the way through to Fortune 500 companies. I don't think they know what's coming, Alice. We're so happy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you.

Alice Heiman 1:32

Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. I enjoy working with you and all the Ace Tech members so much. It's such a vibrant community of people who are willing to help and share. So I really do love it.

Angela Robertson 1:44

That's so great. Well, let's start by maybe introducing folks who are tuning in who haven't had the opportunity to meet you. Um, you've built a career helping CEOs improve sales performance. What do you think most founders misunderstand about the CEO's role in revenue growth?

Alice Heiman 2:02

Yeah, I think it's interesting because a lot of founders didn't come from a sales background. I would say probably less than 25% did. And so most of them had an idea of some type, right? And they wanted to make the world a better place by implementing that idea. And if they grew up in corporate America and got placed as a CEO, one of the places they usually didn't stop is sales. So they know that sales is important and it has to be done. And they just may not know too much about sales and marketing because the marketing is what helps us generate the leads for the sellers. So I think it's important for any CEO to really ask themselves, what do I need to know about sales and what is my role? And I think that some founders who, especially if they're very technical, they don't want to be involved in sales, you know, Angela, you've heard that before, right? They don't want to be involved in sales, they want someone else to do that part. But the most important thing that a CEO can do is enable the team, right? So what does my team need in order to do a great job selling? Which means they're meeting the customer where they need to be met. And so what is that? What can I provide as the CEO to make sure they have all of those things? Different at every company, but you know, definitely a good sales leader, some tools to use, good marketing and uh ways to generate leads like trade shows. So make sure that you are providing all the things that the salespeople need. The other thing that's super important that I think most CEOs forget is that we need a very highly identified ideal customer profile to go after. Because if we're selling to everyone, it's just way too hard. And sometimes I think the CEOs let the team get away with, you know, shooting too broadly, and then it doesn't work very well. So it is ultimately the CEO's responsibility to make sure you're selling to those who are most ideal, Angela. But I think in terms of the role that most CEOs can play, that will change as the company matures. Founder-led sales obviously isn't going to last forever for most companies. But the CEO can always play a role with existing customers, especially the largest or most prestigious customers by staying in touch with them, listening to them, hosting events for them to attend, things like that. And with the largest prospects, they can play a very similar role. And so I think it's important to sit down with your entire sales leadership and even maybe the whole team, if it's a small team, and find out what they need and where do they need that CEO confidence plugged in so that you can build out your role in sales at your company.

Angela Robertson 5:00

No, so much in that, Alice. And I think the one thing that really rings true always that we see with members that I've lived as well is that you know, sometimes when you're so quick to remove a hat, you step all the way out of it. And to your point, it doesn't matter at what age or stage you're in, you're always going to have a role in that revenue model, right? So whether it's from founder led all the way through to the end, you need to maintain that touch point because that's the part of the engine that's driving where you're going.

Alice Heiman 5:31

Yeah, those touch points become really important. And I think it's even important to map it out. So because you are the CEO, you do have a job to do, right? And part of that job is being present with customers and prospects and being present with your sales team. So where does that fit in? And when does it fit? And how do you do that best? It's just something that should be mapped with your team.

Angela Robertson 5:53

It has to be. Has to be. I want to take a look out to where we're where we are now. I think in today's market, buyers are more informed than ever. They're also delivered more content than ever. How do you think CEOs and their revenue teams should rethink or should they rethink their go-to-market strategy to stay competitive?

Alice Heiman 6:16

Yeah, I think that's something that needs to be looked at frequently, right? Because things are changing so rapidly now. What worked a year ago probably doesn't work right now very well, or maybe it does. So I always tell people, well, if that's working for you and it's bringing in enough leads and your salespeople are having enough conversations every day with people who can buy, keep doing it. But if it's not working, that's what we need to look at. And I think keeping good metrics is important because some of these things work for a while and they work really well. And everyone starts doing them and they don't work anymore. So you, you know, email, you know, back in the day was a great way to get a hold of people. And actually, marketing email is still a really great way to stay in front of your customers and get their attention. So we we really need to do more marketing emails and way less sales emails, right? So, what's going on in the landscape today? Well, as you and I both know, the buyers have changed. Now, when I say that, I kind of laugh a little because humans haven't really changed at all. And the way that humans make decisions certainly has not changed, right? But what has changed is their behavior around buying. Now, just think of yourself as a consumer purchasing goods for your family, right? I, if you told me, you know, several years ago that I would be buying off an app on my phone my groceries, I would have said, no way, that will never happen. And even during COVID, when everybody started doing it, I was super reluctant. But now that's pretty much the only way I buy groceries, except when I actually go to the farmer's market on Saturday mornings during the summer. So I that behavior has changed, right? It shifted. I don't go into the store anymore. And because of that, consumers may start to notice that, especially like clothing and shoe stores, don't carry as many choices anymore. Now, you can get it online, or they'll tell you, oh, we don't have those sizes, but we can order it for you. We can get it online. But they're not keeping goods in the store because the buyer behavior has changed and people are not coming into the stores, they're shopping online. I mean, people do both still, but there has been a huge shift. So when we start to think about a business-to-business buyer, what are they looking for? And what are they doing? Well, they're going to be most comfortable buying the way that they buy things for themselves, even though it's a it's a business, right? And so we have to think about that. Their brain is still working the same way, making those decisions, they're gathering information, and they want to go online and buy from you. Well, most companies, their websites are lacking. Uh, there's no interactive types of things on the website. There's very few things that can be downloaded, very few videos. So most websites are not really engaging a consumer the way they would want to be engaged, even though they're business to business, this is still the way people buy, right? So we want those websites to be up to date and catching the attention of the people who can buy from you. It's super important. The other thing we know is that people spend too much time scrolling on social media. Where are you? Where is your company? Where is great content showing up? If that's what they're doing, that's what we have to do, right? We have to be where our customers are. And so I think we got to get in our customers' shoes and we got to act like them and we have to ask them, how are you making buying decisions today? Where do you look? Right. And of course, we know they're going to Claude and Gemini and perplexity and Chat GPT and asking. And if you are not showing up there, you're really in trouble, right? So, yes, we do need to relook at our go-to-market strategies. We do need to update them based on the way the customers want to buy from us. And even so much, I was just at a conference and we were talking, everyone was talking about this. But people want to buy expensive things from your website without talking to a salesperson. And I know that so many of you don't want them to do that, but why? Why are we stuck there? How could we make that possible? Maybe they talk to the salesperson after they purchase, and then the salesperson or customer success or engineer finds out more to make sure that what they purchased can be installed properly and can be used properly and all those things. But let's rethink it. What do they want to do and how do we make it easy for people to buy from us? Removing all that friction that we put in place when they have to wait, they fill out a form on the website and they have to wait for a salesperson to get in touch with them. Wow. Okay, that's that's gotta go, right? I mean, maybe there's a calendar and they can pick their own time. That's fine. But really, if I'm looking, I want to know right now. And if it's midnight, because that's when I have time to look at CRM or engineering this or that, or you know, whatever kind of refrigeration units I need or whatever it is you sell, right? If I'm doing that at midnight, I want to know at midnight. I don't really want to wait. So we have to think about those things.

Angela Robertson 11:47

I know you have and I have talked about this at length, but to remember that there is a person on the end of that conversation. There are people inside of that company, and those are the ones who are ultimately going to make the decision. So why not think of it as how are they going to buy? How is that person in that seat going to buy from you? And what can you do to make it easier for them?

Alice Heiman 12:11

Right. And further, you know, Angela, we know that in a business-to-business sale, that one person isn't going to make the decision all by themselves. No, they're going to be in some sort of a committee or group that's going to have to make all those decisions. And so then if that's the case, how do we help them make a good decision together and move along in the process? That's something that we don't really train sellers to do. Um, it's called consensus building, right? We have to meet a group of buyers and help them figure out how to move through the buying process together in a way that makes sense. And because buyers have such low confidence these days, not low confidence in you, the seller or your product or service, but low confidence in themselves to make a good decision and spend their company's money, right? That low confidence makes deals stall. So again, knowing that, how are we going to sell to them? How are we going to help them make better decisions? How are we going to guide them through this? How are they going to, we gonna help a team come to consensus? Those are things that most salespeople may not know how to do.

Angela Robertson 13:20

Yeah, it's so interesting that you pull on that thread of confidence. Where is that lack of confidence coming from? Is it based on uncertainty in the market? Is it, are we less risky as a whole? Like what are you seeing?

Alice Heiman 13:34

I think it's both of those things. And, you know, I think that it's also kind of about the pain they have is known a known pain. You know, is that gonna be greater than or less than the pain they're gonna have making some sort of a change? And in a business-to-business sale, you are always asking for a change, right? They're doing this. Now you want them to do this. How are you gonna help them through that change? And that's why I I feel so strongly that selling is a team sport. It has always been in my mind, but now, like, if I'm gonna buy something from you, I want to know what it's gonna be like after I've purchased it. Who's there to help me? Where's that team? Why not bring them in earlier in the process so that I get to meet them and have some sense of security around what's gonna happen after I buy this thing? Because it's not about getting customers. It's about getting customers that can be successful using your product and then ensuring that they are successful using what you sold them. Otherwise, you know, you're gonna be struggling constantly and you'll be losing customers. So if you think about what does that customer really need, then they need that confidence that if they make a decision to do this, it's gonna be a good one, which means they've spent the company money wisely. There's a plan in place to transition from whatever they're doing to whatever is next. And there is help beyond. Like, great, the salesperson's great, but then what? You know, when they go away, what what what's left, right? So they need that confidence. And then that is why we bring in the CEO in certain circumstances too, to help them have confidence in making a decision. We really thoroughly checked out that company. We even got to meet the CEO. Uh, we understand why he or she founded that company, you know, things like that. So I think we we have to look a little deeper in helping them make those decisions. But also sometimes there's just not enough pain, right? It's like it's okay the way it is, or they don't really see the growth potential that can happen from purchasing whatever it is that you sell, right? So I think that lack of confidence is a little bit the economy, a little bit who's in charge of the world right now, a little bit about companies, you know, cutting costs and being very cautious with their spending. And then I also think that, you know, buyers are just fatigued. It's like if you were trying to buy a CRM today, oh my gosh, how many thousands of choices are there? And, you know, a lot of people default to some of the better known products, but those are not always a good fit and they're expensive. And so if you've got a committee of people trying to figure out, it's like, oh, let's just stick with what we're doing, it's not that bad, right? They just they get so tired, they're fatigued, they don't want to do it. So we have to make it easier for them.

Angela Robertson 16:33

Yeah. And I think that's so important to remember that, you know, in this, it it's not always obvious. Yeah, we think, I think when we have our CEO hats or our sales hats, we're like, we know our product, this is the obvious choice. But to our buyer, they're consuming all this content, they're constantly inundated with noise. And it's hard to sift through and find what's best for them. So we need to help.

Alice Heiman 16:58

And really on the outside, especially if they go to your website and they look at three websites that sell the same thing, sounds the same, looks the same. How are they supposed to differentiate? Well, this is why you don't want them buying without being able to talk to a salesperson, right? But can your sellers really differentiate your product and services? I mean, it's it's tough because, you know, I can drink out of both of these things, right? I'm holding up my water bottle and I'm holding up a mug. I can drink out of both of these things. Which one is better? Well, it depends, right? Depends if I want to take it in the car. It depends if I have little kids around. It depends on a lot of things. So if I see two drinking vessels and I'm trying to decide between the two of them, maybe my use case helps, maybe it doesn't. But let's just say it's two mugs. How do I decide between these two mugs? They look the same, right? So I think that it's hard for the consumer, whether they're buying for themselves or buying for their business, to differentiate. And that's another thing that fatigues them. Trying to figure out, well, what is really better about this? Why is it more expensive? And that is where a true salesperson can come in, not to say this is why you should buy from us and this is why we're more expensive, but to say, what do you really need? Why do you need that? What's going to change if you get that? And back into what is the right solution versus starting with the solution and trying to move them forward.

Angela Robertson 18:27

Yeah. I could not agree more. I think it's so easy to jump to that so quickly. I want to also touch on you and I have talked a lot about how AI is also changing how people buy and how teams sell, right? Where do you see the greatest opportunity for CEOs who want to use AI wisely in their go-to-market process with their teams, even just at a high level themselves?

Alice Heiman 18:56

Yeah. So this is a really, it's big. This is a really big topic, right? I think right now people are doing random acts of AI. It's just like a salesperson, oh, I'll use it to write some emails. And then somebody else, I'll use it to create a to-do list. And somebody else, you know, is doing a this and we're doing a that. And yes, people are using it to code. Isn't that wonderful? Okay. Well, there's, you know, I'm not against AI. What I am against is random acts of AI, and I'm against companies letting their employees choose when and how to use AI, right? Now, can AI help us take the friction out of our sales process and the buyer's buying process? I believe it can, but I believe it takes some real clear thinking and then strategy and then planning, right? So we got to brainstorm and talk about it first, right? Then we can get a strategy that works at our company, and then we can make a plan. And that's not happening. So uh salespeople and others just start using it randomly and whatever. They're just using their own login, they're putting it all out there, you know, your company's intellectual property, and you know, not meaning to harm anything, but that's just what they're doing. And I think that CEOs need to say, okay, let's take a pause, let's have a look at this, let's talk about AI at our company. What does that look like? Who's doing what? And now what could we do with AI? What could we do? Then out of that, what should we do first? Because can't do everything, and then have a committee who's going to build the guidelines and decide what which AI you're going to use and pay for it. So your company is using the same body of knowledge and inputting and outputting so that I get the same benefit from the AI that the other salespeople who are using it do, because we're sharing great great outputs, right? So I think that all has to happen. And each department needs to think about and share, you know, what are their workflows and which of those workflows could be improved by AI, right? And so let's say that we could do a customer delivery process that is aided by AI, and that would take some friction out of the buying process. Then I might start there. Or maybe there is a process we could, a workflow that we could improve and then put it into AI, and it could help the customers learn how to use what we sold them faster, easier, and 247. So I think there are some things that we can do that would really help our customers and help us to, you know, make sales so much easier. But I I don't think it's easy to figure that out. I think it takes a team of people. Putting their minds against it. And like I said, you know, brainstorm and then strategize, choose, right? And then plan. Can't do everything at once. So pick some things that are going to impact your customers the most, right? The processes inside your company that will take the friction out of the buying process. Choose those first and start to work on those.

Angela Robertson 22:21

Yeah. And it also makes me think, you know, can people be leveraging AI to help them better understand that buying process from their customers' perspective too? Right. I sometimes worry about that because, you know, is there ever a better replacement than just talking to your customers or talking to the market? But sometimes that can be a point of friction too, right? It's just getting folks on a call. So what what do you say about that? How do you see that weaving its way into the sales process?

Alice Heiman 22:55

I definitely think that we can train AI to answer a lot of our customers' questions before, during, and after the sale, all the way through the process. Because we are not available all the time. And we are not available always when they are thinking about that thing or when they have their whole team together. But if they had a way to go to your website and ask questions. So now I met with you and maybe one or two others on my team met with you, but now I'm going to go meet with a larger group of people. Maybe they're the users or maybe the senior executives, but I'm sitting there and I am trying to explain this to them. And I don't really know how to do it very well. But if the AI, if I just boot up that website and the AI is right there and it can answer my questions about the product or service, wouldn't that be amazing, right? So why wouldn't you do that? Now, is that going to replace salespeople? Not really, because there is a point where humans want to talk to other humans and make things happen, but the humans can't always be available when the other humans need them. So why not use AI? There are some really terrific companies like OneMind. Amanda Kalo started that company. She's also one of the founders of SixtSense. And she has these AI bots built that are sales engineers, you know, they can answer a lot of questions. It's wonderful, but they can also tell you, oh, I can't answer that question. You're going to need to speak to, you know, another person. They can name who it is, whatever, and then help them get scheduled to be able to talk to that person. So there are already AI bots that are built to do a lot of these things. We may not have invested in them yet, but I think one of the easiest things that any company can do is train a bot on their website to answer basic questions, not just direct people to a URL where they can read it themselves, but have a real conversation, right? And it could even be a voice conversation or a typing conversation, either one. But yeah, I think right now you could help yourself a lot, all the CEOs listening, if you got uh some AI on your website that your customers could interact with 24-7.

Angela Robertson 25:19

Yeah. I think you could also buy back a lot of time that way too, right? Um maybe unseen time in the process. If there are some low-hanging fruit pieces that you know that customers are coming to you with that they don't really understand, if you can solve them up front, that would be a huge lift. Yeah. Since we're talking to listeners directly already, Alice, for someone who's listening today whose revenue has plateaued, what would be the first three moves you'd recommend right now to that listener?

Alice Heiman 25:54

Well, A number one is always go to your existing customer base, right? So if you're plateaued, who's buying from you now? Are they buying everything they could possibly buy, or could they be better served by buying some other things or buying them differently? A lot of times, also when we look at our existing customer base, we find customers on old legacy products with old legacy, you know, plans, you know, subscriptions, payments, things like that. So let's get our existing customer base shored up first. Spend the time there. Go through every customer, rank them and rate them, decide who to who to approach first, and have conversations with them. Now, in some cases, you'll say, yeah, no, they it's this is a one-time thing. They buy it and they're done. There's nothing else to sell them. Okay, great. But who could they introduce you to? Their own customers, their vendors, their business partners, people in uh business professional groups that they belong to, who could they introduce you to? That will get you revenue a lot faster than cold outreach, right? So the existing customer base is always the place to start. Or, and if you have partners that sell for you any kind of channel, go so go to your existing customers first, shore them all up, see if there's anything else you can help them with, you know, sell more to them, sell something different to them, and get introductions from them, and then go look at your partner channel and see who are these partners, are they actually selling anything for us or not? Um, what are they doing? How are they doing it? What can we do? Usually people have to condense their partner lists, and because there are a lot of partners who are doing nothing, and then focus on the ones who really want to sell for you and really believe what you believe and help them, enable them to sell more, right? So those two things are be going to be the quickest ever. And if you really want to add net new, which of course you you will at some point, then instead of doing cold outreach, again, go through your partner channel, go through existing customers and see if they can introduce you to the companies that you would love to sell to. I think those things happen right away. They make, you know, movement happen. You know, they uh it's fun and easy to talk to your customers. If you hear that they're not happy, thank goodness you call them, you can fix it. You get a lot of opportunities by doing that. So one is just go to your existing customer base and take a look at them and figure out what you can do to help them and you know how you can sell more to them. Again, if it helps them and I sell them other products, different products. And then two, go ahead and get introductions from them. So look to see who do they know and find out if they would be comfortable making that introduction. And if they don't want to make a direct introduction, maybe they would be a referral, you know, but they would write something, a testimonial, or they would be a reference if someone says, I'd like to talk to one of your current customers. So lots of ways, right, to use them to help you get new business. And then take a look at your partner channel. That's three, right? And go to that partner channel and get it cleaned up and help the partners who really want to work with you do a great job.

Angela Robertson 29:20

Yeah. It's so true, though. We sometimes make it harder for ourselves, right? We think, okay, I'm not getting enough sales. I gotta go to the out to the leads and do this broad, you know, kind of look out and see where else I could go when the folks who are already buying from you are such a wealth of knowledge and they're such advocates, or they can be advocates, but if we don't tap into them effectively, we're leaving that on the table.

Alice Heiman 29:48

Yeah. Well, and you think, you know, oh, we need more sales, send more emails, make more calls, do send more LinkedIn connections. Not working. Not working. Now go to a trade show or hold an event where you invite your own customers and prospects. That is working, right? But nothing works better than somebody introducing you who thinks you've done a great job. It's like, oh, Angela, I can't wait to introduce you to, you know, Ben, because I know you've done such a great job with the CEOs in your group, and he needs exactly what you have. So I'm gonna introduce you and I'm gonna tell Ben how great you are and why he should join. Like, why not do that?

Angela Robertson 30:31

Yes.

Alice Heiman 30:32

It's so much easier. And I think salespeople are just first of all, they're not expected to do that. They're not taught to do it, and they're not measured on doing it. So probably not gonna happen unless you go put that in place at your company.

Angela Robertson 30:48

Yeah, unless you have a view to make that a reality. Alice, I am so grateful to you for joining us uh today on the Stormy Stories show. We're so lucky to have you as a proud partner of the Ace Tech community. And I'm already looking forward to our next conversation. Thanks again.

Alice Heiman 31:10

Oh my gosh, it is my pleasure.

Angela Robertson 31:13

At Ace Tech, we believe one of the most valuable resources a leader can access is another leader's experience. That's why I created the Stormy Stories show to bring you honest conversations about the moments that test us, shape us, and ultimately make us better CEOs and founders. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.