Bhavya Aggarwal 0:00

One mindset that changed when building a business was it's not so much in your control anymore. It's about people too, right? The people that you're talking to. They may be in a different mindset. They may not have a budget today. They may not have the right time. It's not something that's completely controlled by you. That's something that I have taken to heart.

Angela Robertson 0:20

Welcome back to the Stormy Story Show. I am your host, Angela Robertson, CEO of Ace Tech. We are a peer community for technology founders and CEOs based here in beautiful British Columbia. And we exist to make sure that no tech entrepreneur has to grow their business alone and so that they can thrive alongside their business. Today's guest is Bavia Agarwal, founder and CEO of Zipboard, a collaborative review platform helping AEC content and documentation teams streamline feedback and approvals. With a background in aerospace engineering and SaaS product development, she is building AI-assisted workflows that keeps humans at the center of decision making. And we need that now more than ever. Welcome, Bavia.

Bhavya Aggarwal 1:11

Thank you, Angela. That was a great introduction. You're doing the great work here, bringing the CEOs in tech in Vancouver together. So thank you for that.

Angela Robertson 1:25

Well, I'd love for our audience to get to know you a little bit better in your Zipboard journey. You built Zipboard after experiencing the chaos of fragmented review processes firsthand. What made you realize that this problem was bigger than just one industry?

Bhavya Aggarwal 1:41

Yeah, that's fascinating. And in fact, just before I get to that, let me tell how Zipboard came by because that would made it, make it very obvious as to why it's applicable to all industries. So Zip Word is a collaboration platform. So we really help teams review and approve important documents like content and drawings. So really bringing context at the center of collaboration. What I, for me, what was very strange was that uh, you know, if I were to do this in a real world, if I were to, let's say, work on a document, if I were to work on an engineering drawing in the real world, we all would be sitting around the table with the document is heart centered. Right. Whereas when we started collaborating initially in the digital world, and we still there's an Excel sheet and there's a document, and there's no, you know, there's no connect. So really the idea was to bring everybody on the same page, same table, same context. And as we were going through it, we realized that it really started with content teams, building websites, building, you know, learning content and so on. It started percolating through different mediums, only the file types changed. Like from HTML, when we started supporting PDFs, the drawing reviews became the same. You still need to bring everybody on the same page, the architect, the designers, the engineers, they need to have context. They need to know what am I talking about, and they need to be able to mark it up quickly. So really, I mean, the problems are the same. There are experts in every industry who need to collaborate on building something and creating something. And whether it's training organizations, whether it's construction companies, yeah, almost identical conversations that we need these experts to chime in on what we do. That's how it just opened up to different industries. And interestingly, I mean, of course, also our marketing efforts brought people from different industries. So I had no idea what I still, to be honest, I've never been to a construction site. Uh, but again, uh the um the engineering community or the AEC community found us and said, Hey, you know what? We don't like the way we are working on it today. Even today, I've seen people marking up just last week, marking up blueprints on paper. Right? Yeah, like not digital, like paper. So for me, it was like, okay, yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It totally makes sense. Let's put context, let's bring everybody on the same page.

Angela Robertson 4:25

Yes, quite literally, right? Because when you're mixing these different forms, it's so easy to lose this important expert knowledge as you're translating. And it seems like there's plenty of other industries where you would expect, especially now in the age of AI and where you know so much of what we're doing is virtual or digital. There's so many industries that are still working putting pen to paper, but they still need to make sure that that translates to where they the decisions are being made, which is sometimes in a document that is online, right?

Bhavya Aggarwal 5:01

Yeah, absolutely. And then again, it's at the end of the day a trust and coordination problem too, right? Like I need to be able to trust what you are talking about, where are you talking about? What is the latest version of it, all of that? It just builds that trust better when you know what, you know, when you have the same context again.

Angela Robertson 5:22

Yes, absolutely. That's so clear to me. And I can now see the latitude of all the different industries. And so great for our listeners to also appreciate that by you putting the word out there for zip board, you had industries coming to you for right that you weren't expecting. You know, you didn't know that that problem would be there, but you put that out into the world, right? What gave you the confidence that you were ready to just go out there, put zip board on the market and start attracting folks to you?

Bhavya Aggarwal 5:50

Yeah, uh that was, I mean, I I feel like again, and that's uh that's the entrepreneur hat that you wear, that you're really always listening to your users, to your customers, to your next customer or your existing ones, and really problem solving with them, right? So just going with them, building that trust with them and telling them, look, we understand that we this is a problem that you have. You need to be able to get everybody on the same page, get approvals in time, not have delays, not have to do rework. So we understood I understood the code problems. It was also, I feel like technology is just a gateway. After that, it's the trust that you build with people. It's how you listen to them, how you how you translate what they need to technology as well. So it sort of started trickling in naturally, really.

Angela Robertson 6:43

That's amazing. That's so wonderful to see. And it's true, right? When you build that trust and that connectedness, it just starts to compound, right? You know, you have more people in your corner who are trusting what you're building. I'm curious to now take that trust conversation and talk a little bit about rebuilding the company after you had a co-founder who left uh early on. What did that experience teach you about trust and resilience as a founder?

Bhavya Aggarwal 7:14

That uh that was the hardest part of my really building company and in general in life. I mean, I had given birth as well. So I was building two babies at the same time, not knowing how to. Wow. So I don't know what got into my mind, but uh so you know, it was not just about trusting others, it was trusting my own judgment that was shaking. You know, when something like that happens, you start questioning yourself. Um I, you know, did I miss something? Could we have a better conversation about it? What else am I, you know, getting wrong? Am I believing? You know, just so many things that start fogging your pain, really. But uh, I think um over a time it helps me build if it's not I understood that it's not what you're going after. I'm not really I'm willing to do have those difficult conversations early. I was willing to go back into doing for myself, you know, restrategize. Of course, it meant also wearing different hats. I mean, I had never done sales ever in my life. For me, I came from a creating and tech and a product background, and all of a sudden now I have to talk to people and tell them how awesome this product is. So it just hit me a lot, but then one step at a time, but we found a very first customer on Reddit, so that there's the trust too. That you know, when you find people strangers trying to say, Hey, you know what, this this is clearly solving a problem. So it started building, you know, trust in my decisions. So at the end of the day, one experience doesn't take your trust away, it just gives you a little bit better tools to feel like, okay, how do I build that? How do I build trust in people? How do I build trust in things, making my own decisions, all of that? So it was quite learning itself.

Angela Robertson 9:13

That's amazing. It really is. It's a it's a refinding of yourself, right? At that stage when you are it's it's the buck stops there for you as a parent with a new child, and also in the business, right? You're having to make all these decisions, and it's it's that re-finding of how do I build that trust within myself and that confidence within myself. That's an incredible layer to explore at the same time, too, Bavia. I'm really just so in awe of you.

Bhavya Aggarwal 9:46

Thank you. I don't know. I I think it was hard, but yeah, now I feel like it was crazy to do it at that same time. I would, I would really say, and that too, I I and my husband started it together. So imagine new parents uh trying to be parents to do uh two things at the same time. I feel I feel like, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Angela.

Angela Robertson 10:09

Let's talk a little bit about this new world order that we're in now with AI becoming so central to review and collaboration workflows. How do you balance automation technological changes with the need for human judgment to have that human in the loop to borrow the term that just keeps going around everywhere?

Bhavya Aggarwal 10:33

Yeah, I know. And I feel like, you know, obviously all of us felt threatened that it's gonna take over and it's AI is just going to take over our, you know, the problems that we are solving for and so on. But to be honest, I realize that it's great. It's and we all know, it's great at processing information, it's great at summarizing things, but it cannot take decisions for you. And that's where the human angle comes. Especially in a product like ours, where it's all about decisions that experts take on a day-to-day basis, you know, whether this building can be built like this or not, you know, whether this content can go on and educate uh 100,000 people or not. So it's like, you know, the instinct and the knowledge that people have gained over a period of time, that is the most important element. So we are using AI to enable those experts, to summarize for them, flag information for them, but the decision making at the end of the day is still very much in the hands of the human. And that's where I feel like it can help these people move faster, all of us move faster, AI, but accountability will still stay in the hands of the people who have done this for years and years to go, and that's where we come into the picture. So I feel pretty gung go about that, you know. Let's enable them, let's give them tools to say, okay, you know what, what's missing somewhere? What what are all the errors? What are the kind of issues that we see repeatedly? But at the end of the day, an architect is gonna approve that drawing and say, hey, you know what, this looks good, this is stable. And people who are gonna live in that building can trust it fully. Right.

Angela Robertson 12:21

Yes, because they're going to have the sign-off of the expert at the end of the day. I want to pull on something that you just mentioned, which was a bit of an aha moment for me, because it's that notion of, you know, AI is providing folks with information, but at the end of the day, there's somebody that still has to make a decision. Are you finding in how you're building out workflows that AI becomes a hindrance at some point because, you know, maybe people are more reluctant to make those decisions because they're waiting on even more information. I just, I do see this out in the world where folks are going, okay, but I've got to stress test this so many different ways. And it becomes that notion of you're stuck in production, if you will.

Bhavya Aggarwal 13:03

Yeah, yeah. And uh even uh, I mean, I again, I don't know, maybe our methods are not correct as of today, but we still, I mean, there is wipe coding and stuff like that, but I still feel like there is so much knowledge that's hidden, which we cannot also you know, maybe uncover. It's like going to a doctor. The things that they have, they know instinctively too, right? Like because they have just done it for so many years. So nobody can take away that for sure. Yeah.

Angela Robertson 13:34

No, it's such an important gate. Absolutely.

Bhavya Aggarwal 13:37

Yeah.

Angela Robertson 13:38

And then the other piece, let's go now to the collaboration side, because you know, as companies are adding so many more tools as they scale, right? Whether it's different AI tools to help with workflow or just different communication tools, teams are still feeling disconnected, right? What do you why do you think collaboration remains such a difficult problem to solve?

Bhavya Aggarwal 13:59

Yeah, that's uh interesting one to think about, really. I feel like, again, people need shared context. I feel like, you know, the the fact that when you are when you are looking at something together, and you that's what you would do in the real world, it still hasn't translated in the digital world. So more tools does not replace that. The fact that there is a shared context, they have visibility, they know, they have confidence that they're looking at the same stuff and we are working from the same information, I think that changes quite a bit. So more tools only add to that complication, in fact, rather than you know, yeah, taking away that layer. We need tools that talk to each other in a way, especially in construction. I feel like the tools do not talk to each other at all. So you're passing, and there are so many stakeholders, you know, who are not in the same building at all. And you need information that you can trust going from one team to another and know that okay, we all are looking at the same stuff, the latest version of the document, latest version of the drawing, and we're all approving the same stuff, and you know, it's coming from there. So, yes, again, all these tools are great for collecting information at times, and some, of course, tools like webinar tools and stuff like that, they've enabled us to do these meetings together, build that, build that bridge, but we still need the shared context and shared visibility to create the trust that we need.

Angela Robertson 15:31

And I'd be remiss if I didn't let our listeners know that you've really grown Zipboard very deliberately and also sustainably over the years. And yet we talked a little bit about your early journey and how that was, you know, maybe inwardly a stumbling block, but out on the outside, you know, folks would never have known that that was a challenge for you. How maybe has your definition of success evolved as you've been through these different chapters of Zipboard as a founder?

Bhavya Aggarwal 15:59

Yeah, uh, so I mean, first off, um, success initially, to be honest, it kind of felt like there will be an overnight success. We will build this and people will come and they'll say, Oh wow. You know. Uh at least that's uh I I feel like uh a lot of the media talks about uh businesses like that, and you start believing that's how it's gonna happen with you too. But obviously nobody talks about the behind the scenes, the number of years, overnight successes that that were not overnight successes, and so on.

Angela Robertson 16:32

They never say how long that night is going to be, right? That's what I think.

Bhavya Aggarwal 16:37

Exactly. That so, yes, it was a journey from you know understanding that it's not going to be press releases and you know, media talks and interviews. It will be an intentional problem solving one customer at a time. So it took a time it took a while to understand that success doesn't mean going fast, shipping features, growing big team, being in the news, all of that. It really meant solving big problems. I mean, today I have customers across North America, South America, Europe, Middle East. Most of them I've never even meant. We've been able to build trust over a period of time, and they've been using the product for years and years. They've been able to build that trust in the product and in me, I would say, and in the team, because of the fact that we have stood by them, we've understood their workflows, we've translated their problems into solutions, and that's what has been incredibly meaningful to me. Definition of success. And even I mean, I would also say I'm telling this also from a point of view from you know, I know at a point there is this whole deliberate deliberation that, you know, should we go for fundraising? Should I bootstrap it? Because there's just so much noise and you feel like everybody is out seeking funds. Why am I not doing it? So even that deliberation, I feel like you have to think about your own situation, you have to think about your own worldview of things, you have to be intentional about how you want to build the business. So I I feel like at the end of the day, I do sleep feeling good that every customer that I speak to today, they trust us, they trust the product, we've we've made their life better. We've taken the chaos out of their life. They can uh, you know, they can they can coordinate with people more, they can do things that they like more and not get inundated by processes. So that's what success today really means for me. Like that's exactly it.

Angela Robertson 18:48

And I can see it on your face when you to light up to talk about the customers and the people, right? That you've really helped enable them to build a better business, and that is just so beautiful. How do you translate that energy and that passion to your team? Because you mentioned the team feels similarly. What is it that you've learned over those years of growing this company that allows you to instill those same values in your team?

Bhavya Aggarwal 19:15

I think that's there's two parts to it. Of course, first picking the right team, because I feel like you have to be on the same page about how you're taking this journey forward, right? And you have to know that not everybody is on the same page. And and maybe, you know, 20 years ago, maybe even I wouldn't have been like this, right? So I really keep that very transparent even during the hiring process that look, this is what it is. We are a bootstrap company, we are growing it one customer at a time, and we get immense satisfaction from solving the problems that we solve for those customers. And extremely proud about it as well. You know, if that's your calling, if that's what inspires you, that's you know, you're here for that, for the learning, for being directly in touch with people who will use your product and so on. So that's one for sure. And of course, I'm also given that we are a very small team, we're seven odd people, it's trust between each other as well and transparency that look everybody should be able to talk to each other. We are fully remote too, so it gets harder. I'll be honest. But then respecting having boundaries for each other and still and I in fact, this is something that I I feel like we need to do better. I keep telling them. For me, I used to work at a company called SolidWorks, and yeah, it's uh uh something that I've been incredibly proud to work at uh place. When I joined, I was just finding problems. Oh, this is this is wrong with it, that's wrong with it, you know, we could do this better, and so on. I went to one user conference and my worldview about it changed. People adored, loved the product. Yeah, but that just changed my view, and that just was like, oh my gosh, I see it, I see it, and you know, and that's what I want to bring to my team too. You know, we have customer calls, some of them we we take them back to the team, show them look how how we're being praised, how things are, how your work is translating to actually making change in a person's life, even so little, but it does, right? Like they're able to do things faster, they're able to trust their own instincts, they're able to coordinate better, they're able to sleep better, I'm sure. So that's uh that's that's what we do, at least in our team. Yeah.

Angela Robertson 21:44

I think that's such a beautiful story that you shared about uh because I've lived that too, right? We could be so self critical of our own solution. And yet, you know, some of the things that we may find are glaringly obvious bugs. Are actually features to our customers, right? But we don't until we walk a mile in their shoes, we don't know and we don't see how much they love the product or how much they love the solution, or even learn about how they might be using it in a way that's different than intended, but it's a way that works for them, right? It's uh it's such a fascinating discovery.

Bhavya Aggarwal 22:21

Yeah.

Angela Robertson 22:22

Now, construction and technical documentation are not always seen as exciting SaaS categories. But what opportunities do you think founders miss when they overlook these more operational industries or these maybe ones that don't come to mind as being very tech forward?

Bhavya Aggarwal 22:43

Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, to me, they are very, very exciting, not because I'm in it, but I feel like we are enabling a creative process.

Angela Robertson 22:54

Yes.

Bhavya Aggarwal 22:55

To me, creativity is exciting, and we are enabling a creative process. We're not burdening people. Like, you know, they shouldn't be getting uh getting caught in. We're really enabling them in saying, hey, you know what? This is your art, this is your expertise, you can bring it forward easily better. So that's how I see it, and I I feel like that's probably where when you have a lived experience, you do not see, first of all, anything to be boring or not exciting or not sexy like that, right? So uh but yes, nobody says that I'm gonna go go and revolutionize document reviews, uh right. It's like but I feel like again, uh it's it's about figuring out, you know, where the problems live and there are better solutions out there for those. And that's how I see it. And of course, uh at the end of the day, I'll also be honest, I've realized in business, and especially because again, we were focusing on a very small industry in learning and content development, and then the world of construction opened up, which was huge. You also start looking at where the impact is more in terms of uh, you know, the money, right? Every missed comment on a drawing or every wrong version of a drawing can cost thousands of dollars in the so people of money is exciting for and it's it's exciting for everyone, right? We need to know, we want to chase those problems in that sense. What is today cause you know, causing rework, causing pain in terms of you know, money? Why not? Why not chase that? Why not talk to people more on those lines? And in fact, I feel like when you're building a SaaS for, let's say, a marketing team and um a dev team, there are enough and more tools out there. Uh and that's why, in fact, fake shifting focus from just creative industries to core construction really opened my eyes as to they're solving for real problems. They're building, they're building these tall, large buildings, and they are coordinating with thousands, literally thousands of people and thousands of documents. So get excited about that, right? Like you are gonna see something that's built using your software. That's exciting. Uh so yeah, I think the less glamorous the workflow, the more important it usually is, right? That's that's how it is, unfortunately.

Angela Robertson 25:28

It's so simple, but it's so true. I completely agree with that. Like sometimes it's the it's the problems that are hiding in plain sight, right? That you don't you almost don't think about them, right? Because they're just, you know, people are walking around and they're in these environments and it's the way it always was, right? But you you can envision a new world order for these industries that just transforms how they are working and gives them back time and energy to be focused even more in their technical roles, right? It's uh yeah, it's it's augmenting their you know opportunity to contribute as well. So that's uh yeah, changing the state of the whole industry. There's uh nothing I think more exciting than that.

Bhavya Aggarwal 26:16

Yeah, and in fact, these industries are set in their very, very old ways. That's another thing, right? So there is immense opportunity out there because you can really you can really look at things from a different lens, like from a process, from a workflow, from a technology or a solution provider lens, which is amazing.

Angela Robertson 26:36

So great, so great. Oh, I just have one last thing I want to ask you, Babia, which is that for our listeners today who might be navigating the long and unpredictable road of building that overnight success SaaS company. Um, what mindset has helped you keep going during difficult seasons?

Bhavya Aggarwal 26:57

Yeah, so first I feel like when I came from a software development perspective, things felt in my own control. Because, you know, I write the code, I go home, I debug night and day, and I make sure that at least I find some solution to the problem. One mindset that changed when building a business was it's not so much in your control anymore. It's about people too. Right? The people that you're talking to, they uh they may be in a different mindset, they may not have a budget today, they may not have the right time. So it's just it's not something that's completely controlled by you. That's something that I have taken to heart. And not every no is uh not every no is an end, is what I thought as well. Right. So I feel like and that's again, I I feel like doing sales has taught me so much of that that you know to not take no as a use it as a failure, right? Because it's not failure. You just need more yeses, that's all. You need to look at the next yes, that's what you need to uh do. You need to you need to trust yourself. And it is a long, it is a long road. It is not an overnight success for sure. So you have to and especially in the world that I am in, again, some of these industries they are built on trust, they're not just built on products, even the building the product takes time because you're sort of making sure that it integrates into their workflows, their systems. So be kind to yourself, right? Because it's not easy. And especially if you've taken the decision to bootstrap, even be kinder to yourself because uh the world is gonna talk about all the funded companies out there and how wonderful they're doing, and then maybe uh you you are the one who is winning one customer at a time, but you know that you are you are really solving the real problems here.

Angela Robertson 28:53

And you are, and you are Bavia. Thank you so much for sharing so much with our community, with Ace Tech, with this show. We're so grateful to count you as part of our little world here, and we're just wishing you all of the success going forward for you and the whole zip board team.

Bhavya Aggarwal 29:11

Thank you, thank you, Angela, and thank you for Ace Tech also for bringing such people together because it's amazing to have a community and to to not hound your husband or your family only with all these uh burdens that you have every day. So thank you. This is a great conversation.

Angela Robertson 29:30

At Ace Tech, we believe one of the most valuable resources a leader can access is another leader's experience. That's why I created the Stormy Stories show to bring you honest conversations about the moments that test us, shape us, and ultimately make us better CEOs and founders. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.